- We have to burn down the school to save it? The really nice school?
- Hey Ben: Questions about tax amnesty
- US Rep. John Murtha, June 17, 1932 – February 8, 2010
- Getting Real Answers from Gubernatorial Candidates
- It is always a good thing when our government works well
- Courtfighter: Delaware County Judge Maureen Fitzpatrick A Bigot? You Judge How Often Bigotry Occurs In Media, PA
- We'll Get You Ready for State Budget Release Tuesday
- ONE Praises U.S. Treasury Announcement to Work with International Partners to Relieve Haiti’s Debt
- A giant toxic monster is coming your way OR no rigs before regs!
- We Need Immigration Reform Now! Why Stu Bykofsky got it wrong.
GOODE wants to shrink City Council
When City Council returns from summer recess in two weeks, City Councilman At-Large W. Wilson Goode, Jr. will introduce charter change legislation that would reduce the number of City Council members that will take office in January 2012, sixty years after the charter took effect.
The charter change resolution and companion bill would reduce the number of Councilmembers from 17 to 15, and the number of at-large Councilmembers from 7 to 5.
The Charter, in effect, currently guarantees Republican Party representation in City Council by providing that while 7 Councilmembers are elected at-large, no political party may nominate more than 5 candidates. The new legislation would still limit all political parties to nominating 5 candidates, but it also reduces the number of at-large seats to 5, so that there is no longer a guarantee of Republican Party representation. Both Republican at-large councilmen are set to retire at the end of this term, after entering into the Deferred Retirement Option Plan (DROP) Program.
There were once as many as 139 members of Philadelphia City Council, the last charter change - on this issue - reduced the number from 22 to 17. As two at-large members are preparing to retire, we should seriously consider whether we need to fill those seats through an arcane political tradition created in 1951 - or at all.


Caution on Structural Changes in City Council
As one who believes in inclusive politics, I would urge caution in cutting the size of City Council or eliminating Republican seats there. Currently, having three Republicans out of 17, or 17.7% of City Council, is a lot closer to the Republican percentage of voter registration--about 14%--than is having one out of 15 Republicans--or 6.7% of the total.
Further, the Republican hold on the 10th Distict is tenuous, as Brendan Boyle is likely to replace George Kenney as the incumbent in the 170th District and Dennis O'Brien continues to act as a bipartisan leader rather than as a Republican partisan. Even continued Republican dominance of John Perzel's state house district is by no means assured as the Democratic registration gains there continue rapidly and Perzel faces an opponent with a track record very appealing to many blue collar Democrats and retired police and fire personnel.
When Democrats take the 10th District, the Republicans will be down to 2 out of 17 members, 12.2% of the Council membership, even lower than their current all time low percentage of voter registration.
The current charter does stop anyone else from organizing an independent slate to contest the Republican hold on the two minority seats; the lower the Republican percentage sinks, the greater the incentive will be to organize such a slate.
Trying to eliminate the at-large Republicans by charter change runs the risk of making martyrs out of them and actually strengthening their position in city politics. Other suggestions to reduce the number of council at large members have been made from time to time and gotten no where as a significant number of citizens rally to save their favorite council people.
The Republican Party has power at the state level that it does not have at the city level. I would worry that the taking away of the two Republican council members at large would lead to new Republican attempts to take powers away from the City of Philadelphia and the City Council, as happened when the charter was amended to consolidate power in the Mayor of Philadelphia and the Republicans responded by having a state takeover of the school system.
I would be greatly surprised if 12 votes could be obtained in City Council to get rid of the Republican at-large councilmembers, and I think this is a fight not worth waging. I tend to agree with the old adage that if there is no clear reason to make a change, that is reason not to make a change.
not neccesarily for Republicans
Doesn't the charter guarantee that no single party can have every seat (reserving two)? If so, doesn't that mean, conceivably, that a Republican or another non-Democratic party (Green Party, Libertarian Party, Charles Bowser's Philadelphia Party) can win those seats?
Yes, Any Other Party Could Win Seats
Any other party could win seats. The other parties are far weaker than the Republican Party, however, and my sense is that it would take a broad coalition to get the minority seats. In Washington,D.C., there is a similar charter provision, and a Statehood Party was formed that successfully beat Republicans for minority seats. In New York City, the Liberal Party at least once won a minority seat in Manhattan.
Whether broad coalitions are organized to contest minority seats or not obviously depends on the degree of public interest in doing so. If both Frank Rizzo and Jack Kelly retire in 2011, and the Republican registration percentage continues to decline, that might spark the significant community interest needed to contest the minority seats.
Interesting Councilman
While you're at, why don't you save the city a couple hundred thousand or more and dump elected City Commissioners too?
Unfortunately, the seats will always go to Republicans.
Let's be honest, the seats will always go to Republicans - and won't that always somewhat shift the body ideologically? Yes.
Furthermore, the percentage of registered Republicans is not totally relevant - in a general election, there is a fair competition for votes from all voters (Democrat, Republican, Independent, etc.) - the voters can choose among all nominees for the best candidates.
Also, there is no guarantee for Republicans in Harrisburg - except that a Republican can still be Speaker of the House with a Democratic majority - and apparently, some Democrats will still be scared of Republicans even though they have a majority in the House.
Five years ago, I introduced campaign finance reform (before the bug) with only one co-sponsor - and eventually got 12 votes for a veto-override to make it law.
It's the right thing to do for a multitude of reasons, particularly since Rizzo and Kelly are in the DROP program and set to retire.
But if 14 Democrats can't produce 12 votes for this, that's all the more reason that it needs to be done ... before we become like Harrisburg Democrats! :)
WWGjr
So what about the Commissioners Councilman?
---
Announcing my candidacy
to run for one of the two set-aside, City Council at-large seats as the standard bearer for the New Philadelphia Party. Our platform's main focus is on mitigating the Great Recession through an immediate, city-wide freeze on beer prices.
Aside from two at-large's
Aside from two at-large's retiring and not having a change in number since 1951, what, excactly, is the purpose in reducing the number of folks on council?
The goal is not primarily to shrink City Council...
The goal is not primarily to shrink City Council... that's just a hot title for a press release or blog posting. :)
The primary goal is to consider a ballot question for the next municipal primary (May 12, 2009) that will advance progressive Philadelphia politics for the next municipal election in 2011.
Don't be surprised by the final version of the legislation that will be introduced!
It will be hot enough for a new simple title.
"Vote 6"
WWGjr
so Councilman Goode, does that mean you'lll dump Commissioners
too?
I'm not really making the
I'm not really making the connection to progressive polictics.
As posted elsewhere
An alternate reform that would empower progressives of the more independent variety as opposed to either Dem or Rep ward leaders if we going to be monkeying with City Charter for no good reason - eliminate party affiliations entirely for City Council. Make it non-partisan, local row offices as well.
Lots and lots municipalities make their City Council offices non-partisan. The San Francisco Board of Supervisors are non-partisan, the world does not end. Harvey Milk, for example, served the people of San Francisco under no party affiliation whatsoever when he was assasinated.
Just something to think about.
This proposed charter change seems petty and vindictive without a strong argument in its favor as to how it will serve Philadelphia voters better.
-Sean
MrLuigi, my cat, actually only types half as badly as I do.
I'll be proposing another vote for City Council At-Large...
is that petty and vindictive?
WWGjr
This is unlcear
What is the purpose of having 6 at-large votes for 5 at-large positions? Why not just have one vote and just elect the top 5 results? Or 3 or 27?
What is the use of the "extra vote"?
It doesn't seem to ad any additional extra representation for any minority interest (meaning both literally ethnic minorities but also ideological minorities whether Republican or Green or Philadelphia Party) and it just seems to complicate unneccesarily the vote tally.
Please clarify.
-Sean
MrLuigi, my cat, actually only types half as badly as I do.
Also
Historic trends shift. Changing the constitutional structure of city government because two councilmen are retiring and your side is in the majority currently absolutely does come across as petty and vindictive. It may be that in a few years one seat goes Green or "Anti-Casino" party and one goes Republican. You have not presented any sound argument for a benefit for this move other than "its easy because people are retiring". It was politically easy for Bush to attack the Bill of Rights after 9/11, that does not make what Bush did or what you are proposing right.
-Sean
MrLuigi, my cat, actually only types half as badly as I do.
One third thing
I've spoken to many people of various political inclinations who when frustrated with their district councilperson (who in this town tend to serve for life) have been forced to turn to at-large council offices to get a response. For that reason alone many, many Philadelphia voters will not only oppose this charter change but will be much less likely to vote for you personally if you pursue this measure.
As an advocate in the past for strategically picking the strongest "good government" R in at-large elections - even if their views on social and economic justice may not be completely alligned with mine, I have in the past kept 4 of my general election votes for Dems. You, councilman, have been one of them but if you can not give a better explanation of why you are supporting this bill, for this one voter that has changed.
-Sean
MrLuigi, my cat, actually only types half as badly as I do.
Redistricting?
What about re-drawing the borders of the councilmanic districts? Specifically, could we seen these redrawn so that they make some sort of sense as neighborhood borders?
-Z
Redistricting
City Council will have to redistrict in 2011 based on the 2010 census. That's a separate matter.
BTW, Sean - which part of "nothing has been introduced yet and a final version will be different" didn't you understand?
I love when people threaten to "not vote for me" in the course of a public policy discussion.
The final version will be different but it won't emanate strictly from a blog discussion.
Nonetheless, the final version will be approved by voters.
And progressive politics will be better for it.
But you'll have to wait for its introduction.
WWGjr
Councilman, I'm not getting
Councilman,
I'm not getting how progressive politics will be better as a result of a smaller council. It's not that you haven't convinved me--you haven't made the argument why this is a good thing.
Also, studies show that voters pretty much always vote "yes" for ballot initiatives. That creates a problem where people don't really know what they are voting for.
I'm trying not to tip my hand but...
the basic concerns of a reduction in representation, minority party and in general, will be addressed in the final version introduced on September 18.
The legislation will only address City Council seats, not the City Commissioner's office.
But it will be loud and clear how I'm trying to impact progressive politics.
WWGjr
Progressive politics and Commissioners
Councilman Goode, I love innovation and creative progressive thinking. And I love that you are going after Clarke/Dilworth-era-reform-loose ends--certainly At-Large minority party council seats is one of them. I haven't thought through the details enough to know if I am with you or not...but still points for being aggressive.
But I still don't understand why you are doing this, BEFORE dealing with our City Commissioners. Talk about vestigial county charter problems--is this on your agenda too?
Why will progressive politics be better?
I can remember quite distinctly when you and Councilman Nutter were trying pass a slate of ethics reform bills and a number of Dem district council people and a Dem mayor stood in the way. Rizzo, whatever his motivations, on the other hand stood with you at that occassion.
I would in fact argue that more often than not since any R who wins one of the two seats has to appeal cross party is more likely to be stronger on non-partisan "good government" issues than our often non-competitive district D councilpeople are and that Rizzo's stand reflected a pragmatic political position on his part. From what I have seen of the next generation of R's this holds true for a lot more of the future prospects than it has in the past. Jack Kelly is a noticeably an exception to that, but the debateably the exception that proves the rule. His cross party support came from John Dougherty and the IBEW and I suggest you look at this thread to refresh your memory on where they stand on compliance to those ethics bills you fought so hard to pass.
So based on my very pragmatic read of the future R field and based on a concrete example you should remember yourself, eliminating these seats in a very concrete and pragmatic way could actually hurt progressive politics in this town. I can't imagine what your motivation to argue otherwise is.
-Sean
MrLuigi, my cat, actually only types half as badly as I do.
Re: "Not vote for me"
On the the most unesoteric, pragmatic level possible, I suggest you do some informal polling amongst Dems in areas with residential parking permits and see how many sing the praises of Councilman Rizzo. I would estimate that there are easily as many registered Dems who fall into that specific group as registered R's in this city who will take a strong dislike to this bill. Take this as friendly practical advice.
-Sean
MrLuigi, my cat, actually only types half as badly as I do.
Leadership by public opinion poll?
I value feedback which is why I post my legislative ideas on YPP.
First of all, I am completely comfortable with what I will introduce on September 18 - and it is somewhat different from what I originally proposed. Be patient.
Second, I never have - and I never will - poll first, then proceed.
Lastly, I have no doubt that Councilman Rizzo, a 4-term councilman, has strong political support - but if it was strong enough for him to beat a Democrat as a Republican under my original proposal, he wouldn't be scared and his supporters wouldn't be scared for him.
When Rizzo signed up for DROP, it was to retire - or just to take the extra money.
Nonetheless, I was not targeting him with the original proposal and the September 18th version will make that even more clear.
But, at the end of the day, why would a Goode be worried about Rizzo supporters?
WWGjr
Cute
Hate to break it to you but the 1980's were over 20 years ago. My point was not really much about Councilman Rizzo per se, but that in fact I suspect that yes indeed there are quite a few CC voters that specifically have benefited from Councilman Rizzo's attentiveness to issues related to parking permits but who due to ideology have likely voted for you in the past. My point is that whether you believe it or not I know real actual voters who fall into that exact category who will be put off by this move to arbitrarily change the city charter with no substantive explanation offered yet in this entire thread as to what the benefit of this change will be. Take my advise or not but it was sincere.
-Sean
MrLuigi, my cat, actually only types half as badly as I do.
21st Century ... not 1980's.
In my last election, I got more than twice as many votes as Councilman Rizzo.
WWGjr
We need more council reps, not fewer
I wonder -- what exactly is the raison d'etre of at-large council representatives without some guarantee of minority representation? Is it simply to have extra council votes for progressive positions? If that's the case, why don't we recarve our districts to convert all of our representatives to district representatives?
As it stands, each councilperson has to serve a very large district -- in the case of the at-large representatives, the entire city -- which makes it difficult for challengers to raise money and cover the entire district, and in many cases to serve all constituents equally. Most if not all councilpersons have a "base" within each council district -- usually their local ward -- whose interests are often in conflict with those of the remainder of his/her constituents. Councilpeople who don't explicitly favor one ward over another instead resort to a balancing act, usually relying on the wealthier parts of their wards for fundraising while seeking to run up the vote in the poorer wards.
I think more representatives with smaller districts would make councilpersons more responsive to the whole of their districts, make primary and GE challenges to antiprogressive incumbents more feasible, and would force city council to address some of the conflicts deliberatively, within council itself, rather than relying on the individual councilmembers to try to strike the necessary balance.
I understand that there is a concern that no council district be too homogeneous, whether economically or racially. There is also a concern that it would reinforce divisions in neighborhoods rather than helping to alleviate them. But I don't think anyone can seriously argue that the present configuration of council is the optimal one to address these problems. Instead, it's fostered one cycle of bitter primary challenges after another, where these divisions are made to blister rather than heal.
I would be much happier with something closer to a Chicago-style alderman system, where more neighborhoods had more representatives, where councilmembers needed to forge coalitions in order to push through legislation, and where constituent services could actually be a greater part of what councilmembers could and were able to do. Admittedly, this might reduce some of the power of individual councilmembers, but I think that on the whole it would strengthen the council and strengthen democratic governance in Philadelphia.
There are more important things than this
Namely the presidential race.
But my point was there are progressive voters in CC who are loyal Dems and probably don't ever vote for any Republicans at large who still would question the wisdom of this charter change who have benefited from Rizzo's attentiveness to parking permit issues specifically, who can think of in other words a specific instance where the charter's inclusion of minority party interests have benfitted them directly in a concrete way. They might not vote for Rizzo but they may resent your attempt to make his seat obsolete (whether the R in that seat in the future is him or not). I know several such people.
And with that I am done. Do what you want, I just wouldn't expect your charter change to be well recieved by either the Inky or DN editorial boards unless you can come up with a better argument than you have presented here. That's all.
-Sean
MrLuigi, my cat, actually only types half as badly as I do.
When it's introduced in City Council ...
it'll be well-received by most.
I haven't presented a final argument because I haven't introduced my final version.
In fact, no legislation has been introduced yet. And, arguments will be made in City Council on the actual legislation - not parking permit privileges in Center City.
BTW, why no mention of Rizzo and his DROP status?!
Finally, cheers to YPP, because the editorial writers read this blog - and they know I'm not a frivolous legislator, or afraid of challenges. They are still a bit more patient than you. Obviously, this issue requires dialogue - and a process.
I'm not finished - I've barely started - and what I introduce will be a pleasant surprise.
But thanks for the advice. :)
WWGjr
It seems to me that if the goal is what you said...
... to increase progressive politics, simply giving people an additional vote, as you implied you were thinking about, but keeping the minority statuses in tact, would help. In fact, it might specifically encourage something like the WFP in New York, because they would not be competing with the Democratic party.
Or, let people use as many of their votes as they want on a single candidate...
And
Because you asked, the idea that Councilpeople are taking drop- something that wasn't mean for them to begin with, and then retiring for a day is totally effed up.
On that I'm glad to say
we are 110% in unanimity. DROP was never for Council, should not apply to Council currently (though it complies with the letter of the law) and what Krajewski did should have led to her being laughed out of office. Sadly it did not.
-Sean
MrLuigi, my cat, actually only types half as badly as I do.