- And this blank page where my fingers move
- Pennsylvania Hunger Games Diet: Cash for Corporations, Cuts for Kids
- The Incredible Shrinking Mayor
- Multi-tasking with the 1% … killing the schools AND making the poor pay for their funeral.
- Council Can Give the SRC the Money to NOT Privatize the System
- Predatory Payday Lending Bill Flies Out of Cramped PA House Committee
- Let the Games Begin: PA Senate Announces Details of Budget Proposal
- Good News on PA Revenue But Don’t Count Your Blessings Just Yet
- Defeat Corbett
- Set off without a Paddle: Unpacking the School District’s Disaster Capitalism
Greatest Hits from the Machine
Submitted by Dan U-A on Fri, 03/09/2007 - 10:29am.
Democratic Ward Leader, and Bob Brady supporter Lou Agre, on financial disclosure forms:
If someone cannot get enough electors to sign their petition, or fill out a petition and financial disclosure form correctly, are they really capable of passing laws or governing. A correct petition is the minimum that is required. It is pretty hard to screw up if you take the time.
Jim Kenney (I am looking for the link), City Councilman, on the request of Council Challengers to stop with techinical ballot challenges:
Whiny.
Jim, Lou, any thoughts? Ready to advocate for real reforms?
This site amazes me
This is too funny. See, that's the problem with "this site." You people "assume" that elected officials and functionaries in the Democratic Party should be held accountable. Who the hell do you think you are?
Dan, I am going to guess you
Dan, I am going to guess you are going to be hearing cricket sounds around her for awhile. ;)
No Crickets
Daniel did not use my entire quote. I said that I would never challenge an at-large challenger's petition. I did say that the press conference was "whiney".
I filed 7000 signatures and it was not an easy chore. There are several council challengers that have filed questionable quality petitions. I looked at some just out of curiosity. I won't let my people's hard work move me to challenge them in a courtroom, but I urge you to get copies of some of the petitions and see just how sloppy the can be.
www.jameskenney.com
www.311forphilly.com
What paper were you quoted
What paper were you quoted in? For whatever reason, I can't find it anymore.
Again, no one has trouble with challenging on the basis of fraud. The problem is these stupid technicalities.
Jim, are you ready to help advocate for a change to the way the City Party does business?
Sloppy Petitions...
I'm curious about one thing, Jim: As this whole Brady event proves, it's not just the challengers or outsiders who mess up this process, but people who are about as inside as you can get without slipping into some sort of parallel universe. So, I was wondering, did you check the petitions of your fellow incumbents, or just challengers? I ask because I was curious after going through this whole insane process what the incumbent petitions would look like, and I did look at a few, and I really don't think that many (or at least a few) of the incumbents would be well served by bringing attention to their own petitions.
I work for Damon K. Roberts in his run for City Council. Unless otherwise stated this and every comment by myself is the opinion of myself, and not of Damon or any other candidate, organization, committee, etc.
I did not "check" anything.
I simply "looked" at the the petitions of those who attended the press conference. None of the incumbents were there at the press event.
As I have said, I am and will not ever challenge anyone. The system does stink and the "gotch ya" crap is disheartening. I do believe that changes need to be made. We do follow state law on this issue, however.
www.jameskenney.com
www.311forphilly.com
I figured if anyone came
I figured if anyone came back it would be you. You have no problem taking your lumps from people and are willing to defend yourself.
Antonio
The duke cannot deny the course of law:
For the commodity that strangers have
With us in Venice, if it be denied,
Will much impeach the justice of his state;
Since that the trade and profit of the city
Consisteth of all nations. Therefore, go:
These griefs and losses have so bated me,
That I shall hardly spare a pound of flesh
To-morrow to my bloody creditor.
Well, gaoler, on. Pray God, Bassanio come
To see me pay his debt, and then I care not!
Frank could have done worse!
Frank Dicicco, when asked why he took a car and a gift of installing hardwood floors on his property with taxpayer money:
"If I was going to use Citizens Alliance, I could have used their trash truck, their dump truck, and saved a lot of money," DiCicco said. "But I didn't do that."
Dan are you still working on your post?
Are you still working on the post ripping Dougherty and Fattah for trying to get the campaign finance laws overturned in court. I'm sure it will be full of sound and fury, right?
I mean, it's only fair after the way you went after Kenney for those bills he floated, I agreed with you then and I'm sure that you're still a principled supporter of campaign finance limits, right? After all Kenney was at least trying to keep the power to regulate campaign donations with the city government. Fattah, on the other hand, is arguing that the city doesn't have the power to create its own laws limiting donations.
Does anyone have a problem with the fact that a candidate for mayor is trying to limit Philadelphia's power to govern itself? Anyone?
I support Michael Nutter for Mayor
I do! I do!
But if I say anything, Ray is just going to post something about how I have an irrational
hatreddislike for Chaka Fattah.(hate is such a strong word)
______________________________
Phillyville
You are turning into a
You are turning into a concern troll.
First, I have already written about the specific challenge, and about Fattah and Dougherty and their role in it. And, I will likely do so again. But, no matter happens next, the law will be appealed to the Court, so there is time. Second, I am not your be all and end all for moral outrage, right? I never am able to write about as much as I would like to.
I am definitely not a concern troll
If the challenge were being brought by Brady (not a supporter, just using an example), I suspect we'd be hearing about it ad nauseum.
I'm merely looking for consistency, just like you were in the post above.
I support Michael Nutter for Mayor
Like I said, I cannot be
Like I said, I cannot be anyone's outrage machine. Not enough hours in the day. The issue is still ongoing, and will be for a while.
consistency
Dan,
I don’t think anyone is asking you to be the outrage machine.
We’re just asking for some consistency. Fattah is getting a pass for what Kenney was vilified for.
Supporting Michael Nutter for Mayor
I Am Not The Expert On Recent Site History
But I really think that Dan has made the argument against what Fattah is doing in his voluminous posts on campaign finance reform and public financing.
Given that the situations here are totally different--Kenney was an elected official proposing a bill that could be influenced by public opinion and comment, while here we have a case that was already filed and is before the courts--I don't think anyone is getting a pass in any way that matters.
Although while anyone can write an outraged post about this...I can see wanting to make Dan do it seeing as he just does outrage so so well.
Jennifer
Ah, google
The things I have said, lets see, with one minute of searching:
I said this:
I said this:
Honestly, the more people start with this, the less I want to talk about it.
Actually, Dan
I remember your comments on this issue from before - I get that. And anyone can make a post on this issue - you may be "da man," but you are not singularly responsible for the gestalt of "this site."
What I'm interested in is what Ray has to say about this issue. I respect his opinion and inside knowledge about Philly politics, and honestly his support of Fattah one of the reasons that I would consider voting for Fattah in spite of his support of Vallas and his association with Philly politics status quo.
I imagine that Ray must have some way of reconciling Fattah's actions here, as Ray is obviously a "progressive" (whatever that means), and overturning the will of the public is decidedly unprogressive -- so I'd like to hear what his justification is - if it exists.
That said, I'm not sure I agree about the level of distinction that Jennifer perceives between the effect of outrage regarding Kenney's efforts on council and what's going on here; Fattah is running for mayor. I think a little outrage would go a long way towards changing his position going in to the primary.
It's not just here at YPP, but in general, that the level of outrage is very different in the two situations. Is it really because of what Jennifer says? Maybe, but I think there's something else going on.
Point, Though Counterpoint Re: Motivation
You're probably right my distinction is too dramatic.
But I think I'm at least somewhat right on a descriptive level: people are more often galvanized by legislative decisionmaking than judicial. Active/passive, broadly generalizing.
I think you are also right, though, that given the context of the mayoral race this is an area where public pressure can and should be brought to bear.
I think that's actually point, counterpoint, point, in your favor.
Jennifer
Counterpoint, point, counterpoint?
Yes, I agree that people are likely to be more galvanized by legislative decisionmaking than judicial. And I agree that would be a significant contributing factor to the lack of "outrage." The more I've thought about it, the more I think you're right. Counterpoint, point, counterpoint. You're winning.
But I have to wonder if there isn't also something else going on here. Are people more likely to get on Brady/Kenney than Fattah for other reasons? Folks might not be inclined to cut Brady a break given his association with the Philly "machine," but isn't Fattah just as tied into the political status quo?
And actually
You ARE my be all and end all for moral outrage. If not you, who? If not now, when?
This was just a little joke to lighten things up a bit. It is Friday, after all.
I support Michael Nutter for Mayor
Ballot Removal
If you want to come to a Ward meeting run for Committee Person. You need 10 signatures and about 70 votes.
In the alternative, if you want to push a candidate, stand at the polling place and do so. No one will stop you.
If you want to build something, instead of tear it down, get involved. Do not blame the Ward system if they do not support your candidates, if you want to destroy it.
What I cannot understand is your glee at this. Its like you want to eat at the cool kids table in High School. If you want your candidates (Stier, Ackelsberg, Toy, Anastasio) supported by Wards you may want to figure out the best way to do this. Personaly attacking Ward leaders is not a way to endear you to them. If not, run and win committee person positions or establish an alternative. If you want to gain power you better learn how to form coalitions. -
In any event, you can attacke me when I am gone. If you think people like me are the problem with the Ward system, you are more out of touch than I thought. You can get in the game or you can sit in the stands and heckle.
As my friend Lance Haver says "Why do you read things that aggravate you". I guess its like watching a car wreck. So for now I will be gone.
btw-I hold no elected position so where would I introduce reform legislation.