UPenn Republicans Turned Vigilantes

Watch out University City residents: Penn Students are armed!

The Inquirer published an article today about increasing crime rates in University City.
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/13212030.htm

Rather than rely on Penn to provide increased security, the College Republicans there are proposing an alternative:

[Penn undergraduate Cory Bray, who heads the school's College Republicans chapter and knows one of the robbery victims, has loudly condemned the administration and urged students to apply for concealed-weapons permits.

"If Penn can't protect us," he said, "we should be able to protect ourselves."]

Hey, he has a point, right? I mean, people gotta stand up and take back their neighborhood (oh, wait...)

Only time will tell if local gun dealers decide to start setting up tables on Penn's campus. Of course, they will have to negotiate space with the hordes of people signing up students for credit cards. Maybe they can score a deal: Apply for a New Platinum Visa and Get a Free Gun!

I would imagine UPenn would p

I would imagine UPenn would probably expell anyone caught carrying a gun on their campus. Regardless it would be perfectly legal as UPenn's policies have no legal standing.

On a seperate note, I don't where your title came from, I see nothing in that article that suggests or condones vigilantism.

Clearly, the best solution to

Clearly, the best solution to this issue is for a bunch of armed Penn students to roam around West Philly.

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E-mail: Ben4YPP@gmail.com
AIM: TenOutsTwice

what are we really talking about here?

the problem with this article is that the real issue is not being reported. if you check even basic statistics, that the university reports, there were 25 reports of theft or robbery in the week of july 25th through the 31st (well before school started.) the article mentions sixteen robberies since october first. what the article really means is that penn students are mad (enough so to carry guns) that there is crime of non-penn students on penn students. the quote from [Catherine Bath, executive director of Security on Campus, a King of Prussia-based group that serves as a school-safety watchdog saying "Penn has done a heck of a lot to ensure the safety of students, short of building a glass bubble around campus"] gets at the real issue. there is an embedded belief that the rampant drug use (including the dealing and trafficking of narcotics) and the sexual assault (including date rape) that goes on within penn's closed dorms is not a problem- but the theft of a few students (10 out of more then 23,000) is. you tell me what the real issue is?

You don't see a statement say

You don't see a statement saying students will carry guns to deal with rising crime by carrying concealed weapons as even suggesting vigilantism? Really?

As long as grad students coun

As long as grad students count, I am sigining up for a glock, a pair of nunchucks, and maybe a bazooka.

Deterrence

I went to neighboring Drexel not too long ago. I think the campus security strategy was "don't fight back, give them what they want, then call us."

You don't think if the criminal element in University City found out that there might be a chance that some students are armed they might hesistate to attack students?

Students are very rarely armed, that's why they make a good safe target.
Petty criminals and even violent offenders, while dumb, are generally not suicidal.

A couple of other things...
It's not about "taking back your neighborhood." Thiefs don't check your identification THEN rob you. It's about defending yourself.

I'm also not really clear why gun dealers would want to setup tables on the sidewalks. You know, three day wait period and all.

Lizzy hit the nail on the hea

Lizzy hit the nail on the head.

The point she is making is really important. What is Penn hiding? More importantly, why aren't the campus Republicans getting worked up about sexual assualt or drug use?

Of course, the Republicans aren't concerned about the crimes committed by their political base-- wealthy white men.

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E-mail: Ben4YPP@gmail.com
AIM: TenOutsTwice

Since when is being prepared

Since when is being prepared to defend yourself against an attacker a form of "taking the law into your own hands."? By that definition carrying fists or even worse taking karate would make you a vigilante.

Vigilantism is an offensive act, not a defensive one.

Additionally (and I know we could debate this all day long and never agree so lets not bother) many people believe that carrying firearms acts as a deterrent to crime, I'm going to assume that's what the person in your quote meant.

Especially bazookas! No one w

Especially bazookas! No one will be touching me!

I dont think Penn is hiding anything special

By law, I am pretty sure that at the very least, they have to send an email to each and every student documenting crime on campus. Doesn't every college now have to do that? So, I don't think they are hiding anything.

Further, do you really want Penn to be aggressivley policing alcohol or drug use? How do you do that, turn RA's into cops? Deputize them into the war on drugs?

I think Penn wants to do what any college anywhere wants to do: paint as rosy as picture of itself as possible, be that lack of crime where crime exists, or simply pretending you have terrific food when you really serve only awful crap.

As for the campus republicans, i mean, cmon. Isn't this the same group that had a member beat the crap out of a peaceful anti-GOP protester in NY?

penn is in damage control mode

penn does post their crime stats on the website http://www.upenn.edu/almanac/crimes-index.html. it is a good crime report site (and where i found the stats i quoted in an earlier post.) as for emails--the inquirer article sited a campus wide email from amy gutmann, the president of penn, that read "exercise good judgment and take appropriate precautions." again i think this quote gets at the real crux of the problem- what is it to "exercise good judgment"? the police themselves admit that the robberies are being done by many different individuals (sometimes in teams, sometimes singular) that do not seem to be connected. the robberies happen in different spots around campus and at times ranging from afternoon to very early morning. there is no "appropriate precaution" that you can take- which is why penn (and penn students) are scared and in serious damage control mode. gutmann was also quoted as saying that school safety was her "absolutely highest priority" instead of say... education or research.

my point is simply that i doubt she would ever say that ridding the campus of coke or marijuana or even rape was her highest priority- because it never will be. do i want penn to become a police state? no! but i do want to point out the inherent contradictions and the really racist and classist underpinnings of what is being talked about here (i.e. some crimes are really bad because they are non penn offenders on penn students, and some crimes are simply tolerated because they are penn on penn.) i wrote a scathing email to patrick kerkstra, the author of the article, about his lack of analysis of the racial tensions and his response was:

'I think there's probably something to be said for your argument that race and class issues are at play here (some of the demented messages I received on my voicemail the day the story ran convinced me of that)...I'll keep your perspective in mind when I next visit the subject.'

penn is no worse particularly than lots of other schools- they are all professional image makers, but to compare lies about the dining hall, and lies about the safety of your student body i think is unfair and plain wrong.

lizzy, you should really writ

lizzy, you should really write a little more about your perspective. the daily pennsylvanian might not publish articles about race and class, but I garuntee young philly politics will.

also, i am offering rewards for anyone who snaps pictures of dan while he is walking around campus.

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E-mail: Ben4YPP@gmail.com
AIM: TenOutsTwice

Huh?

Why wouldn't you expect that the President of Penn would evidence concern about her students being robbed at gun point? Are most of the crimes non-Penn on Penn? Probably...are there a lot of Penn students robbing other Penn students at gunpoint? I think your perspective about all this would change dramatically if you or a friend were robbed. Did you know that a fellow blogger -www.poundforpound.blogspot.com - was robbed at gun point? An finally, what the heck is racist and classist about this? Have the perps been of a different race than the victims? Why would it matter to the school, regardless, a gun is being stuck in somebody's face.

sort of agree, sort of don't

When a parent, especially the parent of a 17 year old woman, takes a tour of Penn, Temple, or any other urban campus, what is likely to be their first question? Probably something along the lines of "well, I see all these blue phones, and, I am just wondering, how much crime is there here?" When I was in college there were multiple people I know who specifically mentioned the blue phones, and the overarching concerns about safety as reasons they did not go to Penn. Now, if you ask me whether I would be scared, I would answer of course not, I grew up in a city, understand that higher levels of crime in a city are facts of life, etc. But, the reality is that Penn is looking to attract students from all over, the majority of which likely never grew up in a city. Call it damage control, call it whatever, but, I don't think it is unreasonable that she will address it. Do I understand that when you unpack that fear of urban life, many race issues eventually come out? Of course. And, are there racism issues, as middle class to upper middle class to all out rich kids are plopped down into the middle of a working class, largely African-American neighborhood? Damn skippy.

You mention the racist and classist underpinnings, and I guess I want to hear more about why: There is simply a difference between robbery, assault, battery or whatever, and non violent, self-choosing drug use. I assume we agree on that? I mean, my bike got stolen on the fourth day of class here, but, it was not violent, I just didn't lock it very well. So, it was sort of understood as a fact of life. But violence, or the potential for violence is different than rich kids snorting away their trust funds. There is an issue of control. If I hear that there has been a huge rise in coke use on campus, I would immediately say, "well, I don't use it, and neither do my friends." If I hear that there has been an uptick in armed robberies, I am more concerned, because I lose that control... And, there are basic ways you can avoid some crime, as anyone who grew up in a City knows. I knew, in high school, that if I took the subway to broad and erie, then the bus home, I was less likely to be mugged than if I took the bus to green and chelten at 3.30PM instead. Did taking that precaution mean I was totally safe? No. But, it was certainly better, and I had made myself, and my parents much happier when doing so.

So then, we are left with the on-campus act you mentioned that is violent: rape. Rape is, without a doubt, the dirty secret of college campuses, and bizarrely prevalent. But, would you say that it is not talked about as a symbol of racism/classism against other criminals (the purse snatcher, the robber, etc who generally are stealing for economic gain), or whether it is instead deep seeded, old boy sexism towards the victim, who many in society assume has "asked for it" in some sort of way?

hi Andrew

The arguement is that Penn cares more about crimes committed by non-Penn students that kids who are paying whatever they are charging these days.

The point Liz is making is that some crimes get attention from the Young Republicans and some don't. For example, I doubt they would get particularly worked up about sexual assualt or rape-- even though that's (in my opinion) much worse than getting robbed at gunpoint.

Oh

If her point is limited to a criticism of the Penn Young Republicans, I guess that's one persepctive. Have they gone on record as being in favor of rape and sexual assautl? Which is worse - rape or being robbed at gunpoint? Hard to say...if you get killed in a robbery by some nut with a gun, that might be worse. It depends a lot on experience...if you live in the City for any period of time and commit yourself to living in the City long term, you have a different perspective on these things. Tend to be a bit less liberal when it comes to things like crime (violent, non-violent, or directed at property), because often times you and your friends/family have been victims.

A bit more

Just to tag onto what I've said, I think this is a lame thread and I now feel silly for participating in it. Getting robbed at gun point sucks - doesn't matter if you're a liberal or conservative. It's a bad thing, and just because some "rich kid" going to Penn is walking across campus, he/she deserves to do so unmolested. Rape and sexual assault? Also bad things...all bad things. It's just stupid to try to put blame on the Penn Republicans or accuse Penn of doing "damage control"...you should be outraged at the jackasses who are robbing students.

Young "Involved but Missing the Point" Philadelphians

Well, I agree that getting robbed sucks. My sister was once held up at gunpoint (while working at CVS) and it totally freaked her out. I don't think anyone is advocting the position that Penn kids deserve to get robbed.

There is outrage over the reccent robberies, which makes sense. What doesn't make sense is the lack of outrage and media coverage of sexual assualt. Of course, sexual assualt is mostly committed by Penn students and the robberies are being done by non-Penn kids. If non-Penn students from West Philly were coming to frat parties and dropping qualudes into the drinks of undergraduates, what do you think would happen?

The robberies are envoking a response that the sexual assualt doesn't because of sterotypes and racial bias in the media.

Don't get it

"The robberies are envoking a response that the sexual assualt doesn't because of sterotypes and racial bias in the media." What's the racial bias? Were the victims from Penn of one race and the perps from off-campus another?

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