- The Mayor...
- Stuff I am reading from around the interwebs
- Supreme Court Hands Tom Corbett an Enourmous Amount of Power to Protect Pennsylvanians. Will he Use it?
- ONE GETS LIFT-OFF ON GLOBAL RECRUITMENT DRIVE AS U2 360 WORLD TOUR OPENS
- The Shrinking of our Shrinking: Will Philly Grow Next Year?
- Don't Cut Loose World's Poorest
- Franken Wins
- Federal Court Enjoins Confidentiality Provision of Ethics Act. Philly Repercussions to Follow?
- Workers Report Back from Fight for Healthcare for All
- Watch out world, here we come
Why do we fund this?
Submitted by HelenGym on Wed, 01/07/2009 - 5:44am.
From this year's Mummers Comics Brigade "Aliens of An Illegal Kind"
Generally, I avoid most things to do with Joey Vento; he does enough shameless publicity stunts to earn him his ignoramus ranking. This post isn’t about him, but it is about the Mummers and their embarrassing use of public dollars – in a time of financial crisis – to promote this kind of garbage.
A few people who watched this year's Mummers Parade took offense to Vento's starring role in a performance by Comics brigade B. Love Strutters titled "Aliens of an Illegal Kind."
The skit featured Vento popping out of the top of a float labeled "Gewizno's Steaks" with a "When ordering, speak English" sign. Vento waved a poster reading, "What?" and tossed fake cheesesteaks into the crowd.
Then an announcer for B. Love Strutters cried out, "Uh-oh, here comes the Border Patrol!" Club members wearing Texas-sized cowboy hats and brandishing wooden rifles pretended to hold back a rioting crowd of "immigrants" from storming the border "fences." As the immigrants burst forth, they traded in their country's flag for an American flag, and a Mummer dressed as President-elect Barack Obama handed out Green Cards.
Right.
Then here’s a city official, Leo Dignam, deputy commissioner for the Dept. of Rec. and Mummers parade director, making fun of people who just don’t get the humor.
"It could be construed as bad taste," said Leo Dignam, parade director and deputy commissioner of the city's Department of Recreation.
But Comics being Comics . . .
"Sometimes they do things that are a little bit controversial," Dignam said. "It was intended to be funny."
or really, what Dignam means, is . . .
"Maybe the [B. Love Strutters] were saying that Joey Vento is wrong and now Obama is going to come and save everybody," Dignam mused. "Some people, unfortunately, are just looking for a way to be offended."
I’m not naïve about the Mummers' apparent appeal - who doesn't love a parade? - but neither am I naïve to their past history with promoting racist stereotypes. And while I recognize that this skit was one in a day-long affair, I would still think that a Mayor and City which is on record as promoting immigrant rights and who went out of their way to find $300,000 for the Mummers this year, might have a bit of a stronger reaction about this flaunting of public dollars.
Bookmark/Search this post with:
Nutter should hire the commentators as his spokespeople
What tipped her off? Maybe the white guy in blackface portraying Obama?
I liked the geishas personally
I feel so appreciated!
And the commentators were priceless: "Let's see it looks like we have space aliens and . . . illegal aliens. It's . . . multi-layered."
Yeah, Philly has been inundated with illegal geishas lately
I'm thinking that some of the overly-sensitive, humorless folks who might be offended by this might overlap with the some of the pollyannish folks who expect to "get everything" before they go to heaven.
If we could just eliminate those complainers.....
What Librarians Were Laid Off to Fund This?
So, the City magically found 300k to fund this, right? Or roughly the cost of what it would take to keep one of the libraries open for the rest of the year. I think it is odd to make everything so zero sum, but that is exactly what the Mayor is doing with the libraries. So, I have to ask, which library closed for Vento to march?
this open, unapologetic racism and immigrant bashing
reminds me of my home state of California, where Mexican immigrants are treated like crap, and it is basically acceptable to be public about these racist attitudes....
Joey Vento and his crowd have an awful history, but this just blows me away!
a proud Philadelphia tradition
The Mummers are funded because it is a proud, venerable, and wonderful Philadelphia tradition. If the City can shell out money for sports teams, a stadium or two, and the like, it can spend some money on an authentic and vintage Philadelphia tradition. I love the parade and watch it every year. I fail to see what is "racist" about this sketch nor do I see anything particularly "offensive". The message of the sketch was clearly a celebration of the American melting pot, with the added political point that admittance into the melting pot must be done legally. What's the problem?
Joey Vento is an inveterate
Joey Vento is an inveterate racist, who says things like:
Anything involving him and immigrants is not credible.
Are you suggesting that
Are you suggesting that there are no individuals of criminal intent who sneak across the borders? I also fail to see how the statement is somehow "racist". It may be misinformed, exaggerated, or hyperbole, but how is it racist exactly?
Shamus, making misinformed,
Shamus,
making misinformed, exaggerated, or hyperbolic statements about a race of people is pretty much the definition of a racist statement.
If I were to say, for example, "all black people drop out of high school", that statement is hyperbolic, misinformed, intended to defame and group of people, and RACIST.That is exactly what Joey Vento was trying to do, defame and degrade a group of people he doesn't like.
If you want to defend to first amendment rights of mummers to be ignorant, backwards participants in a dying and increasingly unpopular "Philadelphia tradition" go right ahead. But to pretend this was a "celebration of diversity" is laughable and shows sad level of self delusion.
No, a racist statement is
No, a racist statement is something said with hate toward a group of people. Vento's statement clearly was directed to "illegal Hispanics" per the quote given above. Illegal Hispanics are not a race. I am also sure Vento is opposed to illegals of any ethnicity. To try and to turn criminals into victims of racism is the height of naivety. The skit was clearly a celebration of diversity as its message was the granting of green cards gets you into the USA and then a wide variety of ethnicities were represented as being in the American melting pot.
How diverse is it to see Asian women as geishas?
or perhaps you were referring to the diversity of someone in blackface portraying President Obama? Or perhaps the wonderful diversity of having the border guards be dressed in patriotic Uncle Sam colors while the people breaking down the border fences are dressed in all manner of ethnic costume? Is that the kind of diversity you mean? 'Cause in most circles that's called something else.
As I said last night at the
As I said last night at the PFC meetup, if Randy Moss can get fined for simulating a bowel movement with a football, so should this group.
And what I mean by that is that the NFL has sponsors and its sponsors want to be associated with a certain type of product and that certain type of product does not include simulated bowel movements (no matter how amusing some people may find them).
The same should go for the Mummers.
Every other parade in this country has sponsors. The Mummers evidently don't or to the extent they do, they don't have enough sponsors to cover the cost of the parade.
And I'd argue the lack of sponsors is due entirely to the Mummers habit of putting up with crap like this - stuff any sane sponsor would never ever want to be associated.
If the Mummers are going to ask the City for handouts, then they should at least do their part to attract sponsors and not permit offensive behavior that alienates potential sponsors.
What happened to freedom of
What happened to freedom of speech in this country? As soon as you do not like the message you want to fine or penalize them? If you do not like the message, that's your choice, but penalizing someone for saying something with which you disagree is against the very American spirit you seem to be protecting. There is no evidence that the lack of sponsors is due to the skits like these however the City certainly cannot stop sponsorship due to its disagreement with certain messages as the message is protected by the First Amendment. By the way, what message did this group of Mummers espouse that you think is tantamount to a simulated bowl movement? By your statements, it would appear you are you opposed to: (1) immigration law, (2) enforcing immigration law; (3) ensuring people entering into the United States do so according to the standards set by immigration law. By your statements you appear to support: (1) people sneaking into the country under the radar despite the existence of legal means; (2) tax evasion by these folks; (3) these folks taking jobs from legal residents; (4) these folks stealing American services from legal residents and tax payers. I think the offense should be with the people who think flouting the law is acceptable behavior.
Freedom of speech does not
Freedom of speech does not entitle anyone to receive government handouts to subsidize their speech. If you want to say something offensive, you're free to finance such speech yourself. Just don't ask the government to pay for it.
Uh
I can't find it online but this morning on NPR there was a piece about what needs to happen in the future in order to keep the parade going financially.
They had sociology professors, etc, talking about how external events (like a loss of city dollars) can force cultural changes on parades.
Then a guy who is president of the fancy brigades talked about a theoretically very forward-thinking plan to shift to corporate sponsorship (they started a marketing group for the parade) and was cool about most of the changes this would entail: less crazy drunkenness, more kids and food concessions.
But then NPR asked, well, maybe the underlying problem is that the parade is all-white and it will never really get sufficient viewers or money until it diversifies? (They had had Jerry Mondeshire quoted to that effect.) And the Mummers were like, well, anyone can technically join but actually we don't want anyone new because the parade is too long already, sorry.
They totally don't care, it's their way or nothing.
Respectfully, shamus
the point isn't whether you find it offensive or not. The point is whether or not others might find it offensive.
The sketch in question was deliberately provocative, in a way that anyone with any common sense would know would be offensive to a sizable chunk of Philly's population.
Seriously, someone dressed in blackface, with big black gloves, throwing money around, was a "celebration of the American melting pot?"
Perhaps if they had some folks dressed up as drunken Irishmen parading around? Maybe some I-talians dripping in olive oil and with garlic hanging around their necks? A couple of Jews with hook noses thrown in for good measure?
Put yourself in someone else's shoes. Whether you found the sketch offensive or not, it was designed with absolutely no consideration for who might. In fact, it was obviously designed - specifically, to be offensive to people of certain ethnic, racial, or national backgrounds, and people of a different political persuasion than Joey Vento. You might not think that people shouldn't have been offended, but it wouldn't have taken Nostradamus to predict that they would be.
You, and Joey, have a perfect right to free speech. You have a right to say things that I or others might find offensive. But when you're doing so on my dime, and those of other taxpayers that have different sensibilities than you, you have a responsibility to be more thoughtful.
And BTW, Shamus
Mr. Vento regularly talks about how one of his goals is to get more immigrants to speak English.
Next time you talk to him, tell him for me (as someone who works with non-native speakers of English) that the best way to do that is to be welcoming to people who are attempting to communicate in our language - not to intimidate them.
Vento has never turned
Vento has never turned anyone away in his restaurant. He welcomes everyone.
"the point isn't whether you
"the point isn't whether you find it offensive or not. The point is whether or not others might find it offensive." - someone is bound to find something offensive that others do not. If we worry about the select few who find something offensive then virtually nothing will every be done and everything will be so sanitized that it will not be worth doing. Of course it was deliberately provocative. The comic division often is - as well as many other things in the media ("The Daily Show" is deliberately provocative as are many other things). Deliberately provocative does not make something inappropriate to do. How do you know the sketch would be "offensive to a sizable chunk of Philly's population"? With the exception of internet sites such as this one, very little coverage of this skit has been in the media because, as you may guess, it is not offensive and no one cares that much. Furthermore, the hundreds of people in the skit and watching the skit live did not think so. Furthermore, Joey Vento still has a booming business and is virtually a local celebrity given how often he is on the radio and TV. If so offended by him and his positions, why would this be the case (the answer is that he is really not particularly offensive)? In addition, if the European stereotypes that you describe were in the skit there would be no discussion as it would not be news. However, there were no racial stereotypes in the skit - in fact the "aliens" the border control kept out in the skit was an actual space alien - NOT a Hispanic! It sounds as though you are offended by Joey's presence more than anything else in the skit.
I call bullshit, shamus
If you seriously think that sizable chunks of Philly's citizenry aren't offended by "skits" with whites in blackface, on the topic of illegal aliens, then you need to get around a bit more, Shamus.
Take an informal poll, why don't you? Ask a bunch of Latinos whether they'd find a "skit" about "illegal Hispanics" offensive. Ask a bunch of black folks if they find it offensive for whites to dress up in blackface and portray Obama handing out dollars to "illegal hispanics." And there are plenty of regular ol' white folks who find this kind of skit offensive.
And you know it.
You came to this website for discussion with a prepared set of arguments, because, you've obviously engaged in similar debates in the past. So, obviously, you have an awareness that people find this kind of "humor" offensive.
The hundreds of people in the skit and watching it weren't offended because they weren't ridiculed in the skit, Shamus. And that, again, is my point.
Look, it is obvious to anyone living in our city in our century that people would find this kind of skit offensive. It is your right to not care about being deliberately offensive; that's your prerogative. But just be honest, and don't kid yourself about whether that is what you are doing - and don't lie to me about it. If know people will find your actions offensive, and do it anyway, don't hide behind some bogus freedom of speech smokescreen or some rant about the "damage" that illegal immigrants do to our country. Just be honest and admit what you're doing.
You're being provocative and offensive - for the purpose of challenging those who would be offended, so you can explain to them why they shouldn't take offense, and to promote your opinions about illegal immigration.
You have a perfect right to feel that people who are offended are too sensitive. But be honest, and don't pretend that other people not targeted in the skit would be offended by similar skits targeting them.
But again, the bottom line is if you choose to be deliberately offensive, and don't care about others being offended, and want to promote an ideology about immigration, then do it on your own dime - not mine.
Most people could care less about what's his name
The point of the post is why, when the City couldn't find a quarter of a million dollars for the Orchestra so they raided the Cultural Fund, or when they nickel and dime the libraries, or when we residents need to realign our service expectations, why do we fork over $300,000 for the Mummers who go ahead and flaunt idiocy like this? Why tolerate a City official like Leo Dignam making ignorant remarks in the paper disparaging anyone who might have found people in blackface (in 2009 might I add), mocking people of color - Asians, Arabs, Latinos - and celebrating the city's best known ignoramus?
Honestly, you'd be better off talking about how this was one dumb skit rather than trying to talk about it as a "celebration of diversity" or "example of the melting pot," but it sounds like you're posting here to hype Vento than to make a point.
And for the record, Asian women as geishas is a pretty pathetic stereotype, held often by men with sexual hangups about their virility who compensate by seeking submissiveness. Know any?
Daily News editorializes on public financing of the parade
Here:
I did not see any hate in
I did not see any hate in any skit in the parade, including this one. Where was the "hate"? What was being "hated"? Why advocating for compliance with the law described as "hate"? This is a made up event in secondary (or less) media sources.
Me neither
But everybody knows that everybody with names like Sean and Shamus are potato eaters whose backs are stronger than their brains and destined to be on the business end of a shovel. And drunks.
I mean everybody knows that, its not hateful to just say so, right? I mean there were some smart ones in the old country but the ones that came here were just slobs best suited for manual labor.
-Sean
MrLuigi, my cat, actually only types half as badly as I do.
So, in other words, by way
So, in other words, by way of this very general statement with no mention of the skit, you cannot point out to anything specifically hateful in the skit?
When you condemn "illegal hispanics" that's hate speech
It's as plain as can be; I can't believe you are contesting it. Vento didn't say illegal immigrants, he felt it necessary to connect illegal to Hispanics. What's the relevance of the nationality of anyone when your subject is illegal immigration? If you're against illegal immigrants, presumably you're against all of them, period. But if you need to defend your opposition, or amplify it, by making reference to the immigrants' nationality, then you're engaging in argument based on group identity. That's as clear as racism gets; it's the very definition of it. What world are you on, shamus?
Oh, and btw, are you one of those legal or illegal shamus414's?
Sadly likely legal
Otherwise it would be spelled "correctly", i.e. Seamus.
-Sean
MrLuigi, my cat, actually only types half as badly as I do.